Muay Thai Scoring

Although I had watched a fair amount of Muay Thai as an amateur fighter when I finally moved here, it was evident when watching Muay Thai fights in top stadiums on TV that many of the major principles still evaded me. Nobody had actually laid down the principles in pure terms, and many of our western conceptions of what is an effective blow were strangely more colored by culture than I ever realized, especially the prizing of displayed aggression (in the west). It wasn’t until Ben of IOMIKO Primal Conditioning - who was training at Lanna at the time – shared a Tony Meyers teaching video that I actually felt I understood. I posted some notes that I took from watching it, as well as the video itself, because getting the scoring right (and consistent) is about as important a thing as can be if the sport of Muay Thai is going to grow around the globe. The truth of the matter is that most audience members, and likely most non-Thai fighters, don’t truly understand how the sport is (supposed to be) scored.

In the video above, recently put up by nopstar, Tony voices-over a western Thai fight basically pointing out which blows score and why, as best he can. He is applying his principles of balance, control and holding position. It isn’t the most illustrative of fights (that is, there aren’t many blows that a western viewer might consider high scoring but are in actuality not scoring, or vice versa) but it does really help to see in real time Tony’s analysis. If you haven’t though, check out my notes here: Balance & Control – Keys to Muay Thai Scoring – Tony Myers.  It changed the way I view Muay Thai fights – in an illuminating sense.

And the instructional seminar is here:

An additional Muay Thai Scoring Resource

click to go to Tony’s Muay Thai Judging site

Tony also has put up a Muay Thai Judging site (that is still under construction). It has a page on judging criteria, and offers several PDFs.

From the page. (notably the strongest scoring blow is an off-balancing move, followed by a strike…balance is key):

Which techniques score best?

There are a number of techniques that are considered to be the best scoring techniques. These are the primary techniques that win fights and include:

• The primary scoring criteria and the most effective technique is a legal technique of any type that ‘knocks out’ or ‘stops’ an opponent so that they are unable to continue the fight.
• The next best scoring technique is any legal technique that either knocks an opponent to the floor with a concussive blow or causes the referee to give an ‘eight count’ (if the referee gives an eight count, two points are initially be deducted from the counted boxer’s score card, if the boxer fights back strongly or has previously dominated the round, a one point difference may be awarded). (the ‘A grade’ techniques detailed earlier).
• Unbalancing an opponent with kick or throwing action and immediately following with a strong striking technique
• Knocking an opponent off their feet with a strike or kick (The ‘B+ grade’ techniques detailed earlier)
• Continually throwing an opponent down showing domination
• An attacking technique or combination that results in an opponent turning their back on the attacking boxer in fear.

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Muay Thai Journal

Some thoughts as I head towards a big card on June 28th. A little about how my training has changed leading up to this fight (the latter part of the video) and fighting styles.

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Thakoon Pongsupha, who is one of the kindest supporters of Muay Thai I have met in Thailand and who runs the highly-recommended Sasiprapa Gym in Bangkok where I trained 3 years ago and had a wonderful time with expert instruction, contacted me several weeks to go to ask if I was open to fighting on his Muay Thai Warriors show in Chiang Mai. You can imagine how glad I was to do so, not even knowing what further treats would be in store. You can follow the Muay Thai Warriors production on Facebook.

It will be a televised fight card (channel 11 starting at 3:00 pm Thai time), though one never knows if my fight would fall within the televised portion. In my Nongbualampu fight I was told it would not be televised and then it was. In either case the really exciting bit is to have the opportunity to face off against a tough opponent in a big Chiang Mai venue (the 700 Year Stadium), and in some regard be representing Chaing Mai as a resident Chaing Mai fighter.   What’s more, this card also features two of the top ten most well-known Muay Thai icons in my development, two persons I never thought I would share a stage with in any way: Saenchai P.K. Saenchai Gym and Nong Toom Fairtex.  Nong Toom is better known as “The Beautiful Boxer” and in her very famous transition as a trans fighter becoming a woman she was at Lanna Muay Thai (Kiat Busaba).

My last name is spelled incorrectly on the card, but my first name is spelled correctly for the first time in Thailand!

The Fight Poster – Muay Thai Warriors Chiang Mai June 2013

The Beautiful Boxer – Fighting with Nong Toom on the Card

I first saw “Beautiful Boxer” when I was still quite new to Muay Thai (embedded below).  I had no idea that she trained at Kiat Busaba (called “Lanna Muay Thai” for the west) until after I’d already trained there – it was a coincidence as I chose the gym because of another female fighter, Sylvie Charbonneau from Canada – but when I tell people around Chiang Mai which camp I train at they always know it.  If I say “Lanna Muay Thai” there is a silence or a pause wherein the person is trying to access a memory, but if I say “Kiat Busaba” they immediately recognize the name and nine times out of ten will say, “oh yes, Nong Toom!”

Here’s a composite picture of her that hangs at the gym.  It’s a tear-sheet from a magazine or newspaper from when she was still in a man’s body but painted her face for fights – an image which has become very famous.  She’s performing her Ram Muay.

She is now at Fairtex and has not fought in a number of years.  This show is her “comeback” fight and she’s only 32 years old.  But Nong Toom represents a lot of different things about Thailand, Muay Thai, and the spirit of fighting for something.  She supported her family and also financed her reassignment surgery through fighting Muay Thai; that’s not the kind of story you hear about very often and is at the same time something that makes perfect sense.  I’m very excited to see her.

Above is the movie poster for the acclaimed film “The Beautiful Boxer” which is the story of Nong Toom, and which  I watched so many years ago, and through which the world came to know her. If you haven’t seen the film though, you can watch it below in this embed. It is among the best films about Muay Thai I have seen, in many ways.

Training For this Fight

I don’t much buy into “big fight” fight mentality as it feels to me that it’s in line with the way the west treats fight build-ups, and that is one of the reasons I enjoy fighting frequently – fighting itself is part of development, it isn’t an end result but rather part of a much larger process. So for me this fight is just one in a line of constant progression. That being said, due to coincidence I will have had longer to train for this fight without proximity to other fights than for any fight thus far in Thailand, other than recovering from broken noses or stitches (3 weeks in all).  These circumstances make this fight like my fight in Nongbualampu, which was an incredible experience, but also one that carried with it a lot of pressure and “build up” that took unnecessary focus from the more simple take-away which is that all fights leave me with something to improve upon.  However, with more time for just training my trainers are amping up my workload, which is great.  It’s something I can then keep for myself after this fight. All in all this fight is a kind of stepping-up in commitment in something that I’m already very committed to, and that always feels good. Indeed, maybe it feels even better because it is a demonstrative sign that my trainers are committed to me and the way I represent the camp as well.

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Daeng as a Trainer

I don’t get a lot of attention from Daeng as a trainer.  He’s a fantastic padholder and is very fight-oriented – I’ve often watched him training his 19-year-old son Tor and wished I were receiving that kind of instruction from him as well – but he tends to stay in the men’s ring, where I am not permitted.  A few times, after fights, Daeng has climbed from the men’s ring over to the women’s ring and held pads for me in order to work on something specific.  When he helps corner for me he is very vocal in his instruction from the corner.  I really like Daeng and I take care to listen to him.  When he and Den conspire with one another to plot out my training it makes me very excited.

Once, many months ago, Daeng asked me “why do you never ask me to hold pads for you?”  I was shocked by the question.  I didn’t know I needed to ask as the format of the gym appeared to be that you waited for a trainer to call you into the ring.  I did notice a few of the guys would request one trainer over another on occasion, but that seemed to be more than anything a way to skip out on the padholders who really kick your butt.  So I started asking Daeng to hold for me and he continued to seem disinterested 90% of the time, so it kind of fizzled out.

Recently, Daeng has decided that he’s sick of watching me flinch.  So he’s held pads for me a few times over the past weeks, taking care to make me kick back immediately, answer every strike against my person with one or two or more strikes back – quickly and without betraying any affect on myself from the initial strikes.  He likes my knees, he knows I’m powerful with them and he works to foster that, but he complains that I’m not of the right composition because someone with great knees needs to also be incredibly strong in their center.  It’s like writing a D&D character – if you have “A’ offense then you must have “B” defense.  His solution is to slam the edge of his pad into my stomach at the same moment that I am striking my knee into his belly-pad.  If you’re not flexing or if you breathe incorrectly, this is exhausting.  If you keep your stomach flexed and breathe out with short, frequent breaths it is still exhausting, but you can work through it.

Training Toughness and the Fight

This is the new drill.  I do five rounds on the pads with Den, who does his best to try to break me down in a kind of just-slightly-more-than-you-can-take way, and then do some sparring and bagwork and then Daeng calls me back into the ring to do a 5 minute round of knees and stomach jabs.  Today he decided to keep going with simultaneous punches to the gut with alternating kicks.  When I asked him “how many?” after we’d done maybe 60 or so he shrugged and said, “I don’t know.  I decide.”  And he decides by reading my reaction, waiting until I do what he wants me to do or just torturing me to see how long I can hold out.  He’s testing me.

His lesson could not be more clear.  He’s conditioning me to be able to take knees or punches or kicks to the stomach, sure.  That much is obvious in the sense that checking kicks will gradually build up your shins.  But what he’s really working on is my response to being hit.  He wants me to stand in, to move forward always with the kind of stoicism and fortitude of an iron man.  Deflecting punches and kicks and knees and just keep moving forward to deliver my own.  I’ve watched Big doing this in padwork against Andy, who is over six feet tall (Big is maybe 5’4″) and it’s amazing, mesmerizing and inspiring.  I want to do that, I think… and then Daeng makes me do it.

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click on any photo for a larger image.

Muay Thai and Photography

We frequently have photographers at the gym.  Usually it’s one or two at a time and nine times out of ten they’re university students.  Sometimes we see the photos they take, usually we don’t.  It’s a normal thing at the gym, something that becomes background to the day-to-day experience of putting your chin down and working.  That said, sometimes one does notice.

In the case of the two photographers we have at the gym right now, the two who shot these images, it is a nice thing to notice them.  They have a very quiet and pleasant energy that adds to the gym space.  I see them in the periphery when I climb into the ring for padwork, a glimpse of one or both of them pulling themselves up to the other side of the ropes and getting into a rhythm of shooting and peering into the backs of their cameras to check the shot.  Unlike most others, they’ve appeared several times, come to my fight, and showed up with prints of some of the photos to hand out to us or sent me a link with high-resolution images of me to keep.

On top of all of that, being nice guys and university students, these two are gifted with good eyes.  It’s difficult to shoot action and even more difficult to capture movement and dynamism in still images; these guys capture both movement and stillness with great power.

The first two photos (not including the banner) are by Maestoso Top from Ayuthaya.  The final three (and banner shot) are by Piyarat Jeasukon from Nakhon Phanom.

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Because my YouTube channel was founded on detailing the process of my training and has become a record of my fighting in Muay Thai it’s good sometimes to just show the raw footage of my work. It’s bizarre to think that I’ve posted over 1,000 videos now on YouTube, many of them extended training sessions in my first years of learning under Master K, filled with my mistakes and his constant corrections. This footage from Friday is very much like that, a roughly 20-minute glimpse into what I do every day in the effort toward making myself better. Fatigue, flinches, off-balances, repetitions, moments of clarity or power… they are all part of it.  I’ve said from the beginning (which is five years now – crazy) that I’m not interested in creating or showing “highlight reels” of my work, but the struggles and difficulties and work of my work, because that’s what one learns from.

My padwork as of late has, for me, been a test in focusing on my energy.  Not energy like not gassing out, but energy as in the intention and force with which I face my opposition in the ring.  In padwork, Den is my opposition.  So if I miss a block or get teeped across the ring it’s a matter of coming back; it’s a challenge to always move forward.  I dinged my shin in my last two fights, so I’m not kicking with my left leg in any of these rounds, but Den decided in the morning session of this same training day that he wants me to be teeping with force and frequency.  So we’re doing that.  Den is doing it to me repeatedly in order to show me a) how to do it and b) when to do it.  He’s far more relaxed and fluid, so it’s at his disposal more often.  I’m getting there.

Normally at Lanna we do 5 minute rounds, but somehow most of these got shortened. We actually just bought a new round timer for the gym so that issue should be permanently resolved presently.
Round 1

Round 2

Round 3

Round 4

Round 5

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 A Little Break Down of the “4″ Block

Den taught me this block a short while ago and it’s also very well utilized by Neung, who is a WBC boxing champion.  Basically you use your back arm and fold it across your chin, so your elbow is right at the center to protect your nose and chin and your glove is at the opposite side of your head, protecting your ear and jaw.  Then your front arm is the leg of the “4″, shooting straight out to jab or push on your opponent.

Den isn’t using this “on” anyone in the video, but directly after shooting it he started shoving me with his outreaching arm and I thought it was important to note that he uses the outstretched arm with an open palm to push my shoulder (opposite side of my body so I have to turn and it opens me up to him) and figured that probably on a taller opponent or a guy he might push the chest also.  I tend to use the outstretched arm to get right in the face of my opponent, push them backwards and then launch a heavy right cross; but Den loves to knee out of this or throw his elbows, which is why it’s important to keep your hips forward and watch the last part pertaining to how your feet should be positioned.

You can’t quite hear him in the video, but he says to keep your feet the same as your normally would and not to square up or reverse your feet.  He says to stay up on your toes because you want to move forward out of this in an attack.  It’s important to note that you don’t stay in this position for very long unless someone is raining punches at your head only.  It’s a quick block and counter move, otherwise you’re getting kicked in the ribs.  But he notes that the only time you come off your toes on the back foot and kind of lean your weight back instead of getting ready to drive forward is if your back is against the ropes and then you get your weight back in order to teep or switch step for a knee.

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On Thursday I started feeling a bit of a flu, so I finished up afternoon training and went home to sleep.  My husband read how I was feeling and advised me to take the morning off as well.  This was coinciding with my parents’ visit coming to a close, and maybe because I’m such an ice-cold cat my emotional tides tend to wash up as short-lived illness rather than, you know, just feeling something.  So we decided to go see “Fast and Furious 6″ in the theater and take the morning to rest.  I sent Den a text to let him know I’d be out the following morning but planned to be at training in the afternoon.

About an hour later Den called me and started giving me the third degree about my illness.  I tried to down-play it as much as possible because I really did plan to be at training the next afternoon and believed I’d feel much better after an 18 hour sleep.  When Den asked if I had a fever I confirmed that I did not (two of the boys at the gym have just been very sick and he was perhaps worried I had the same thing) and upon hearing a negative to the question regarding the fever he then explained that a promoter called and wanted me to fight because he’d already advertised that a Farang (westerner) would be on the card and then had that fight fall through, so could I step in to make good on his ticket sales.  I said, “sure, no problem.”  Den asked me a hundred times if I was sure and I kept saying it was no problem at all, so it actually worked out well that I now had trained exactly as much as I should have for a fight on Saturday and had now two full days to recover from my flu or whatever before the fight.

I did not have a good couple of days.  I slept 90% of the time between getting home from the theater and getting up to go to the fight two days later.  I did eat a little bit and managed to get to a pharmacy to pick up some Advil and Imodium so that I could at least make it through the fight, but the muscle aches and chills were bad right up until leaving for the venue.

more on the psychology of these events in my On the Dangers of Feeling Special

But here’s the thing: I make a big deal about saying that fighting in Thailand is a job and a way of life and you show up when you’re expected and all this.  I also try to emphasize how much I dislike the importance placed on individual events and performances in the US and many parts of the west as opposed to how it’s all part of a larger process in Thailand.  And so fighting while sick is just another experience.  Maybe I learn that it’s a terrible idea and I do what I can to avoid it in the future, but what I actually experienced in this fight was that the best I felt in about 5 days (I crashed hard after the fight) was during the time leading up to and during this fight.  My body went into “let’s do this” mode and it felt fine until it had the option to rest again.  Then it pretty much felt like I had the flu again.

The Fight

A few fights before I was meant to go in the ring it became clear that they were still choosing an opponent for me.  The program had listed the fight at 60 kilos (I’m 47 kilos) and one woman who was there looked to be about that weight.  Another woman was brought in and I was made to stand next to her; she was closer to my size but when Den told me who she was I remembered that she’s still bigger than I am, at about 53 kilos.  It was put to me by the coach of both these women to decide who I wanted to fight.  I called Den over to get in on whatever was being negotiated and he opted for the one closer to my size.  Apparently we’d fought before.  When Den said her name I remembered, quite clearly, our first fight.  Nong Ying had bashed me across the ring for two rounds before I landed a clean knee and KO’d her.  She had also just now come from another fight – as in, she was in a fight – so this would be her second fight of the night.  One kid with a flu and one kid who already fought; O! Thailand!

Den reminded me to keep my hands up because Nong Ying has very good boxing.  I did keep my hands up in a kind of neutral way but at the very start of the fight I absent-mindedly tried to grab at her kick (I honestly wasn’t aware of it) and she took advantage of this stupid twitch and faked some low kicks to get me to drop my hand for the catch and then just nailed me with a right kick, connecting just behind my left ear.  I went down.

I kind of tunnel-visioned out for a second as I slowly went to the mat.  I couldn’t hear anything and my head was buzzing.  I could see the ref counting and everything felt very slow-motion, but I did get up to my feet by the time he got near the 8 count and was ready to go.  And my damn left hand stayed glued to my head after that.  Her coach kept yelling “knock out! knock out!” from the side of the ring – no other instruction, just that – but it wasn’t to be.  He had yelled the same thing at our first fight.  By the second round she was throwing elbows.  I totally thought to work mine in but didn’t even get close.  Den wanted me to just knee her, which I don’t remember doing at all and don’t remember being in the clinch even once, even though that did happen.  I was buzzed.  But she went for a kick again and I blocked, our shins connecting hard.  Incidentally it was exactly on the part of my shin that was still injured from my last two fights but the lion’s share of the nerve clash went into her shin – probably from her fight just before this one, but who knows? – and she kind of just crumpled down against the ropes and stopped.  Then the ref counted her out.

It’s a strange way to end a fight, especially one that was so intense from my experience of it.  Nong Ying is a very good fighter.  She’s been fighting for at least 5 years already since she fought the other Sylvie back before she retired and was one of the few or perhaps the only one to knock Sylvie out; but even fighters with that experience aren’t necessarily as aggressive and skilled as Nong Ying is.  She’s definitely an adversary for my development.  Well, she’s a catalyst for my development because she’s an adversary for my weaknesses in the ring.  She’s fast, strong and aggressive which means I have to take a lot to even give a little.  I reckon we’ll fight again – I hope I’m able to bring more to her each time.

The Checked Kick

The Whole Fight

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clips of Niamh Griffin above

Female Muay Thai in Documentary

I was watching a 2002 documentary that followed 3 fighters in Bangkok – the future writer of A Fighter’s Heart Sam Sheridan, a Thai female fighter, and a young Thai boy – and was pleasantly surprised to see Niamh Griffin interviewed for a few segments. I first met Niamh digitally when she interviewed me for her blog in the article: Inspiring Sports Women From New York to Chiang Mai. When we talked she said she had been a Muay Thai champion, but it was pretty cool to unexpectedly see her in this film. I separated out these pieces so they could live a little bit beyond the film. As women fighters we need to not only tell our story, but also preserve the history before us. A small bit of that.

If you want to find out more about Niamh the best source may be this excellent 2011 interview by Action81.com

Emmet Ryan : Hi Niamh, thanks for joining us on Action81.com. You’re a former two-time WMC Intercontinental Bantamweight Champion but I know a lot of our readers want to know, how did you end up in Muaythai/Thai Boxing to begin with?

Niamh Griffin: I was working in Bangkok, Thailand teaching English in a secondary school there. And as you know when you go to a country where the culture is so different, you want to learn something about what the people like doing. I went to see a few MuayThai shows in the stadiums, and thought it was fantastic but I had no idea that non-Thais could compete. Then I met two Canadian men who were training in Bangkok. They encouraged me to come down to their gym and see what a training session is like and I was hooked from the first day! That was in May 1998. I had been living there since August 97.

ER: It must have been quite the eye-opening experience. Had you done any boxing or combat sports before moving to Thailand?
NG: No, I would have considered myself too soft! I had just some the normal Irish stuff – camogie, swimming, badminton I suppose, it was easier to take it up in a new country because it seemed quite exciting and “exotic” and so it was less intimidating than walking into a gym in Cork might have been

read the rest

The film was made by Susanne Cornwall Carvin, and the full 50 minute video can be viewed below.

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Iman Barlow vs Fani Peloumpi

Thanks to the new openness of Iman’s father, who has protectively guarded filming of Iman’s fights since she was a young girl, we have fantastic coverage of Iman in action vs Fani Peloumpi. Rew Mitchell of R-Awakenings – a site celebrating and promoting female Muay Thai – captures the action intimately, including pre-fight footage, the entire Ram Muay of both fighters and a ringside camera.

Spoiler:

Iman just had too much technique, cardio and aggression for a worthy opponent. She’s non-stop in this fight, high, low, hands, legs, inside outside. She told me in interview that she expects to have the cardio advantage in a fight and we really see her relentless fighting style, which is still always on balance. Everyone is waiting for a van Soest vs. Barlow super match.

If you don’t know about Iman yet she’s been fighting since she was little. I had the chance to interview her via Skype, excerpts and great pics are found here: Meet Female Pro Muay Thai Fighter Iman Barlow with the full transcript and (poor) video here: An Interview with Pro Female Muay Thai Fighter Iman Barlow.

Can’t wait to see more of Iman’s fights, and I hope Rew is able to keep bringing us quality female Muay Thai coverage.

Video was found via Rosy Hayward’s Female Muay Thai on Facebook Group.

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